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Poster: Jing Tong Date: Aug 9, 2005 5:50pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Does anyone else besides me notice that many Net Labels are completely dependent on Archive.Org - doesn't this fly in the face of the independent nature of Net Labels?

I wonder how viable many of these labels would be without the great help of Archive.Org?

Thanks....Jing

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJ.B. Nicholson-Owens Date: Aug 10, 2005 5:22am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Independent of what?

What, exactly, are the netlabels claiming to be independent of?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffsimon c Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:43am
Forum: netlabels Subject: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

For what it's worth, in this thread, 'Jing Tong', 'Ward Burns', 'Mister Lister 405', and 'Morgan 23' all seem to be posting from a similar IP - most likely the same physical location. Pretending to be different people to advance your argument is not allowed, and if it continues, these accounts will be warned and frozen.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 10, 2005 7:58am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

Hm, that makes this an interesting "conversation" opener too:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=40953

Also I guess that makes me wonder about a *much* larger nameset on both http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=39147
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=38561


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-08-10 14:58:56

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffaaron m Date: Aug 10, 2005 10:09am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

Its all starting to seem as if its that unimportantly sad sod 'Benbenek'.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffWeirdomusic Date: Aug 10, 2005 4:38pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

If it's not him, I'll eat my hat.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 10, 2005 9:58pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

Apparently Long Beach is in Finland... ;)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffSonic Walker Date: Aug 10, 2005 5:38pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers.

' For what it's worth, in this thread, 'Jing Tong', 'Ward Burns', 'Mister Lister 405', and 'Morgan 23' all seem to be posting from a similar IP - most likely the same physical location.'

LOL. I guess a major music label intern has been told to use some guerilla marketing tactics.

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Poster: nolight Date: Aug 9, 2005 8:00pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

I think that you have to focus the problem on different levels.
On the one hand you have labels who use archive to publish their music; in order to save money and as a platform well known to a lot of people.
On the other hand archive is also gaining benefit from this,through people who look for open (source) media files (music etc.), download it there and give this files to their friends or whoever. The more people know archive.org the better it is for this domain...

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Poster: Ward Burns Date: Aug 9, 2005 8:48pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Still...if Archive.Org ever goes belly-up (and it wouldn't be the first major website that did) Net Labels that aren't prepared will have their entire superstructure pulled-out from under them...not a good thing in this age of diversification.

PLUS - I notice more and more download failures via this site. For the past two days it's been Comfort Stand whose Archive.Org files are clogged up...and many others periodically.

Net Labels who are fighting against 3 or 4 major record companies (Sony, etc) have now put ALL their eggs in one basket...ONE BASKET. It dosn't take a rocket scientist to know this is not a good thing.

Not to be a sour-puss, but this doesn't make sense to me.

PS - have any court cases been tried to test the strength of the Creative Commons license? I have heard of none.

thanks - WB

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 4:57am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

netlabels are not fighting against the 4 majors. where did you get the impression they're trying compete? they sell their music. we don't. they treat music as a consumer product. i like to think we treat it as art into which people put their heart and soul.

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Poster: Mister Lister 405 Date: Aug 10, 2005 5:48am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

It's common knowledge that most Net Labels feel as if they're "sticking it to" major record companies.

I think NEARLY EVERY Net Label operator (if given the opportunity) would sell out his or her soul to cut a deal with Sony Music or Warner Music (or even Matador)

Why putter around on Archive.Org getting 10 downloads a month when a major label can move tens of thousands of CDs?

Let's be completely honest about this, Archive.Org IS the major host for Net Label "product" worldwide...and most Net Labels tend to go over-board when it comes topromoting their mp3s anywhere and everywhere ("hey, come listen to my new ambient, lounge remix!!"

Archive.Org has pretty much cornered the market when it comes to Net Labels.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:41am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

it's not a market. missing the point entirely.

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Poster: nolight Date: Aug 10, 2005 10:15pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

As you do not sell your music, the competition takes place on the level "who is able to get the audiences attention".
At this level you do compete with the majors and have a market.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 11:24pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

there is no competition, there is no market, we don't compete with anyone, the music is there for people who want it, people who find us by accident or by word of mouth, it's there for the regular visitors.

it might seem strange when people come from the commercial sector but things are very different, you can't compare the two, they're like swings and round-a-bouts. you can't even use the same language when talking about netlabels - target audience, projected sales, market penetration, money, timing, growth, demographics etc etc. they're all irrelevant, some people seem to have difficulty in getting their heads around this.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffaaron m Date: Aug 11, 2005 10:42am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

You shouldnt speak with such authority or with such assumingly broad strokes. There are many netlabels that do everything you just said doesnt apply, especially in the German market.

I promote like mad. One's been featured on NPR and other national public radio services, print magazines, direction relationships with certain record labels, paid advertising, etc.

Some of the differences lays with monetary commitment and often the language used to approach people (editors, writers, reviewers, owners, promoters, etc).

Obviously since the turnaround profit doesnt exist, these methods of promotion will be used to a much lighter extent compared to a commercial label that (hopefully) helps pay bills. But, they are still used and looked at in the same way.

You dont tread into this realm, but that doesnt mean other netlabels don't. Thinner, Tokyodawn are 2 other (prominent) examples that jump immediately to mind that would scoff at what you just said.

There's nothing wrong with your thinking and it may be the most common behavior of netlabels, just don't try to ascribe it to everyone else...

This post was modified by aaron m on 2005-08-11 17:42:54

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 11, 2005 10:31pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

of course it's not EVERY label, but certainly most i've come across in the last few years, thinner, while an extension of autoplate certainly operates with similar principles. i don't speak with any authority other than my own experience over the last 6 years, in this thread in particular it appeared there were 4 or 5 people slagging and no one responding so i fought the other side (it now turns out it was just a couple of people with the rest writing with multiple logins for their own agenda).

if someone speaks of netlabels in such broad terms i'll respond in equally broad terms, is it okay for the original poster to generalise and call all netlabels crap and trying to compete with the record labels, home of bedroom tweakers etc etc but not okay for me to post a rebuttal? the percentage of netlabels (that have stuck around over say, a year) that do operate in a community based altruistic fashion is proportionally larger than those who operate out of desire for commercial gain.

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Poster: nolight Date: Aug 10, 2005 10:08pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

From my point of view as a user - not as a net label "manager" or musician - it is better to find netlabels at a special place in order to search for music.
Just googling for music does lead nowhere and a lot of other forums are very limited; especially as they only promote music one has to buy.
I buy a lotof CDs and have over 400 original CDs at home, but I think it is hard to find "fresh" music or ideas that are not mainstream infiltrated britney stuff...
But where archive will go in the future is unclear. A lot of things arenĀ“t ok richht now, but I hope that it will evolve in the future.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTC-Genocide Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:32am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

To me I think all the netlabel bashers should stay the hell out of the netlabel section. You don't care or have anything positive to say about free music and the incredibly hardwork IA has done for people ... then fuck off.
I have webspace, enough to host my files, but when archive had a "call out" to netlabels ... awesome. I went in immediately, especially since Simon has been a netlabel and tracker man for years. Besides, I also take more pride I guess in my releases then others here. I do full artwork for the releases, which takes time.
I do agree that some folks on here, shouldn't be on here. They don't follow the release rules most of the time. THAT is a reason to not allow their files. Not allowing their files because it's "bedroom noodling" is inane and stupid.
Richard D. James, Jimi Hendrix, Yngwie Malmsteen, and everyone else started as bedroom noodlers, and people would kill to get their "noodlings" ... so ...

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffzeromoon Date: Aug 10, 2005 10:41am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

hey this is exciting..people's hairs raising on the back of their necks...can you hear it? maybe we can upload that sound and create a new netlabel.
Its nice to see my little comment about "bedroom noodling" egging on the discussion. Of course fancy schmancy equipment and mega production value is not a qualifier for music. The term means that everything that a person might record does not mean it has to be immediately shared with the rest of the world. Sometimes its just a sketch that should be put aside, considered, embellished, or perhaps abandoned. Then one should start again, in a different direction.
Archive.org does not mean its one's personal archive...they don't have unlimited space to store everyone's dirty underwear. Its a wonderful place, filled with great discoveries. And great music can be found on netlabels along with embarrassments.
Let's not abuse it.

What's funny is I heard the same arguments during the "tape-label" era of the early 80s...people saying that it wasn't legimate music, not being released on vinyl and filled with bedroom noodling...and many of those cassette artists are "stars" today...hmmmmm

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffcamomille Date: Aug 10, 2005 1:27pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

i totally agree with zeromoon and he says it like i should've in earlier posts. I also agree that no one should dictate anything about the scene ( which i wasnt ), there is just a direction to be taken with IA. Most of us in the now-dead-tracker scene remember what happened to traxinspace, and all of us remember mp3.com. It would suck that it would happen to IA.
As hippocamp said, some of our netlabels are serious and open doors to our artists to get signed and actually live off this stuff. Some have artistic merit, some totally destroy boundaries and that's amazing, there are days of great material here. But seeing IA as a free service that everyone should use is a problem to me; seeing as how it's ' cool ' to have a netlabel now, seeing as how everyone who downloads fruity loops and fiddles with it for a few hours can put it up here on IA. ''Sometimes its just a sketch that should be put aside, considered, embellished, or perhaps abandoned. Then one should start again, in a different direction.
Archive.org does not mean its one's personal archive...they don't have unlimited space to store everyone's dirty underwear'' : this is the ultimate truth and is a question that should be looked upon. It is not elitism, it is just that the amount of low-quality music here on IA is totally overshadowing those of us who are serious about it, and IA looses its purpose at that point.

I understand the liberal approach, i understand the fact that we have total artistic liberty, but IA is a blessing, we shouldn't see it as a service or someone's job, cuz it ain't.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBlue T-Shirt Date: Aug 14, 2005 2:08am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

see, here's the thing...

i can imagine a scenario where a moderated Archive is more costly to support in the long run than its current incarnation.

what follows isn't a logical argument in any sense, but merely an illustrative scenario... i don't know if it's true but it might be worth considering. read first, then decide.

first, let's assume there are a bunch of prolific netlabels with narrow fanbases, and that there are a few netlabels that generate more interest.

what this means is there are a few releases by a few netlabels that are downloaded heavily, and many releases by many netlabels that are accessed infrequently. in other words, most netlabels would take up space but not cause serious bandwidth concerns, while the popular netlabels would be more bandwidth-intensive.

imagine a different paradigm: few netlabels, admitted to archive under some moderation scheme.
the storage costs would be alleviated, obviously - many fewer releases would be incorporated into the archive.

but what happens if every release on archive is of (subjectively) higher quality? I don't think it's a stretch to believe that interest in netlabels that ARE permitted to be a part of archive would see increased traffic, and that fans would stick around and download more, since it would be markedly easier to find "quality" music.

i understand that storage costs are fixed, sunken costs... once a release is uploaded it's filed on a hard drive somewhere and sits to collect cyberdust.

however, bandwidth isn't charged similarly.. a few popular releases are at least as bandwidth intensive as a passel of lesser albums, if not moreso.

my point is this: assuming that any obstacle towards the indefinite longevity of archive would ultimately be related to finances, making archive more exclusive wouldn't necessarily help matters.
it's not unreasonable to imagine that it might, in fact, drive up bandwidth costs and push archive towards its untimely end..


This post was modified by Blue T-Shirt on 2005-08-14 09:08:28

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffsimon c Date: Aug 14, 2005 5:27am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Picking issues? (was re:Net Labels)

As the co-founder of the Netlabels Archive (with the gigantic help of the people at the Archive!), I think that the fact that the Archive is preserving _all_ netlabels is vital. We don't really have the ability (and nor should we try!) to objectively judge what is 'worth' keeping. We should keep everything.

[Compared to other collections, the netlabel are a very small amount of space and bandwidth, too.]

However, it still bothers me that there is so much netlabel music that I'm not interested in listening to (just because it's not to my personal taste), and I'm unable to work out what it is. This is probably the Netlabel Archive's biggest failing right now, and suggestions on that are welcome.

One possibility is to very strictly enforce bigger overall styles (such as 'techno', 'ambient', 'drone'), but we don't have the website infrastructure to do that right now, and it's difficult to judge objectively, too.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 10, 2005 10:57am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Archive.org does not mean its one's personal archive...they don't have unlimited space to store everyone's dirty underwear

Just wanted to point out: http://ourmedia.org/
I bet "underwear" would even return a few hits by now. ;)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffkendra_unique Date: Aug 9, 2005 9:58pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

hosting aside, the other big attraction to the archive is exposure. people who are familiar with net labels come here looking for new music, and those who are just finding out about them are being lead here in good frequency. that makes it an attractive place to be if you are behind a label and looking to expose people to your music.

but in regards to the hosting aspect, you do run across sites where all of the artist release links run straight into the archive. i think that this is something that can be understood for smaller labels or labels that are just stepping in, but at some point the responsibility of hosting needs to fall back to the people putting the music out. if not in respect to the fact that IA is offering a wonderful and free service which could suffer if taken advantage of, then at least to show your commitment to what you are doing and to establish yourself as an independent entity.

i spend in gas for my car, in two days, what it costs me to host my own files for one month. if you have the means, holding up your own end is just the responsible thing to do.

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Poster: Morgan 23 Date: Aug 9, 2005 10:11pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Yes, I too have a problem with so many music sites holding dearly to the IA servers...like thousands of babies to one breast.

Someone always has to pay the piper, and like Napster before it, IA may one day have to charge for it's generosity

PS - instead of so many faceless Net Labels, couldn't the space on IA be used for something a bit more lofty? Isn't the glut of Net Labels and Dead shows going to tip the scale one day?

It's seems sometimes that IA is just a dumping ground for the unlistenable work of 4-track bedroom musicians.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffzeromoon Date: Aug 9, 2005 11:25pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

when i first discovered IA a few years ago, I understood its purpose " literally"-that is was an archive for works no longer available in "analog" formats, a place that these works can be stored, preserved and thus enjoyed by others.
But it seems its heading towards the way of the old mp3.com, with people using it as a dumping ground for every little bit of bedroom noodling that they might produce.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffcamomille Date: Aug 9, 2005 11:49pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Netlabels have been relentlessly bashed on for the last few years for the amount of netlabels popping up everyday and the amount of music that should've stayed on the musician's HD. The problem with archive.org in my opinion, is the unfiltered, massive loads of music that it hosts. We are up to what now, 100 and few netlabels ? and people keep pushing and asking and demanding space when all archive.org/netlabel department was for a while was a way to help a somewhat blooming community and give them a centralized location ( like www.scene.org )
I mean there are two ways, either there are more netlabels coming here every day, till archive.org can no longer support and close down, or downsize and keep the quality up.
Some of us have been at it long before archive.org arrived, there are alternate ways of hosting music.

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Poster: rinus van alebeek Date: Aug 10, 2005 12:53am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

it-s an urban effect: when the neighboorhood becomes too trendy, the ones who discovered it first, start to complain about losing their exclusiveness.

you don-t have to listen to all the mp3-s.

but every mp-3 will find a pair of ears,
so why bother?

something new will come soon.


greetings to you all!

rinus

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffaaron m Date: Aug 10, 2005 7:01am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

"it-s an urban effect: when the neighboorhood becomes too trendy, the ones who discovered it first, start to complain about losing their exclusiveness"

I'm not sure where you got that from, I believe one poster or 2 might have mentioned some kind of selection process on the side of IA in very vague terms.

This all started off as a post where someone asked how VIABLE (as in long term, self-sufficient, etc) many of these netlabels are without IA. No one complained about the lack of 'exclusiveness' (IA has never been exclusive, if anything its all inclusive, the whole site.. not just audio. I dont see this as a bad thing).

Concerns about its stability, bandwidth, expandibility, etc. were also raised by the question.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 4:43am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

archive want the media, the whole point is there is no record in the digital age, generations to come wont be able reassemble changes through any kind of archaeology. once digital media is deleted it's gone forever, all this media has massive cultural value.

bedroom twiddlers - bullshit, several of our artists have gone on to get signed by labels, some pretty big as well, artists use our site to promote themselves, we release people who aren't quite there yet (skills/productionwise) so they can get there music out and it gives them more self confidence and hopefully they'll keep at it and improve. when we did have a mailing list there were some BIG movers in the music industry signed up who checked our output.

90% of the posts in this thread are completely ignorant of what the netlabel scene is about and it'd be better off without that misguided and plain incorrect attitude.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffcamomille Date: Aug 10, 2005 7:07am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

I don't know why you would feel touched by the comments issued earlier. Hippocamp is not one of these labels that release crap.
It's not hard, nor is it in any way agressive ( and does not need defending ) that archive.org must take so much work from Simon and the people behind it, and for what ? 60% or more of stuff that should've been left to be reworked or filtered.
Of course that's harsh but as i said, there is a choice to be made, either let IA grow exponentially and thus make it lose its purpose (what if you have 1000 visitors a day that check between 10 netlabels or 100 netlabels, the more netlabels the less people will find anything and the less the ' promotion ' side of IA works ), or IA becomes a place of quality netlabel music.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 7:23am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

that's completely unworkable, you can't create an arbitary elite, why should one group of people have access to facilities and not another? it takes time to build a netlabel and everyone should have equal chance to do it. i can't see why anyone should be able to dictate the terms, good sites stick around and develop, ones that don't get time and effort put into them disappear. it's open and free and that's the way it should be, what you are suggesting is a kind of censorship. i'm not writing these comments defending my own site but the whole netlabel idea in general. it's a new way of doing things, we don't treat music as an object to be bought and sold, we don't target any demographic, it's altruistic and a special thing. netlabels are still young, most born in the last couple of years a few were around 8 years back, the whole idea of telling people thay're not good enough to do it: does not compute. it's about people coming together and developing community, i give advice to people who ask for it when they start up new sites, we swap artists and remixes with other netlabels, we help other sites when they're stuck and they do the same for us, swap ideas, skills, the whole thing is pretty special and i'm keen to retain that vibe.

more info on the history of the scene here: http://hippocamp.net/?magazine/hca002/hca002.asp

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Poster: Mister Lister 405 Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:01am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

QUOTE: "...several of our artists have gone on to get signed by labels, some pretty big as well, artists use our site to promote themselves..."

This statement affirms the fact that Net Label artists are using Archive.Org as a jumping off place to big labels

Let's not kid ourselves and have some lofty notion that Archive.Org is the saviour of modern music (it's not) -

Archive.Org seems to be more like an AMATEUR HOUR, where amateur 4-track experimenters embarrass themselves and waste bandwidth

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:48am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

'This statement affirms the fact that Net Label artists are using Archive.Org as a jumping off place to big labels'

we're not USING anything, how is it a bad thing that artists who struggle to write the best music they can, release it for free, then go on to get paid for their work?

'Let's not kid ourselves and have some lofty notion that Archive.Org is the saviour of modern music (it's not) -'

no it's not. it is what it is. a free host for media which is used by a very grateful group of people who put a lot of hard work into developing their sites and community.

'Archive.Org seems to be more like an AMATEUR HOUR, where amateur 4-track experimenters embarrass themselves and waste bandwidth'

compared to what? is the output not valid because it isn't produced in a studeio at the cost of a hundred quid and hour with professional mastering? what exactly offends your poor little soul so much about people getting of their backsides and being creative?

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Poster: Mister Lister 405 Date: Aug 10, 2005 5:57am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Exactly - - "bedroom noodling" is what most of these Net Labels are offering - a good percentage of Net Label music is ego-based and ego-centric and often unlistenable.

Do these Net Labels think that I would actually listen to their noodlings in my car, or play their music at a party?

The MP3.COM comparison is appropriate. Isn't it funny that folks believed that MP3.COM would last forever? Now it's just a distant memory.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:43am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

'Exactly - - "bedroom noodling" is what most of these Net Labels are offering - a good percentage of Net Label music is ego-based and ego-centric and often unlistenable.'

why is it egocentric? how can you know if it's egocentric without meeting the individual. YOU might not like it but that doesn't mean someone else wont enjoy it. music isn't a case of one-upmanship. these people are getting on with it and being creative, your point of view cheapens the whole thing.

'Do these Net Labels think that I would actually listen to their noodlings in my car, or play their music at a party?'

franky, i couldn't give a toss if you do or not, it's a little EGOCENTRIC of you to think they would. what constitutes good music in your opinion?

'The MP3.COM comparison is appropriate. Isn't it funny that folks believed that MP3.COM would last forever? Now it's just a distant memory.'

it's not at all appropriate, the two are nothing alike other than the fact they host media. the whole ethos and structuring is different. mp3 was restrictive and the whole movement centred on their own site as a portal, archive.org allows people to 'hotlink' and have as much or as little association as they like.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffaaron m Date: Aug 9, 2005 8:04pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

I have the same concern as Jing.

When I happen to come across a netlabel I dont know or have never heard of (and theres still tons of them surprisingly) I often decide if I'll download anything that first trip just by looking at the way they host their files. I feel like it says something when the ppl running the show have a personal invested interest in a netlabel, and those usually (rightfully) grab my attention first. There's always exceptions though. And many sites use archive soley for the .zip download but not the individual mp3s, etc.

On a similar note, I'm kind of suprised that people are creating their podcasts directly aimed at archive.org hosted files. Podcasts really get nailed, not just by downloaders, but by podcast mirrors/aggregators/blogs/directories, etc. In the very least its not a very wise thing to do at the moment - regarding recent troubles and the hell some of the servers are going through. The admins/mods are working hard enough already, without the addition of overloaded servers (not to mention all that went into relocating them). ;]

This post was modified by aaron m on 2005-08-10 03:04:48

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 11, 2005 12:08am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Ref: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=41043
In the above thread, please read the following usernames as likely to be from a single individual:
Jing Tong, Ward Burns, Mister Lister 405, Morgan 23
No further replies to this individual should be necessary. Thanks! A moderator.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffWeirdomusic Date: Aug 9, 2005 5:47pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

The problem of course is that without the Archive we would have to pay for hosting and (lots of) bandwith ourselves. And who has the money to do that sort of thing?
Let's hope Archive.org will continue to help us out in this great way!

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Poster: Ward Burns Date: Aug 9, 2005 8:58pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

Money is never a reason to do (or not to do) anything. If a person can't afford (or borrow) $100-200 a year to have a simple website, then they shouldn't be fooling around with the technology to begin with.

If Archive.Org didn't exist, there certainly would be some other way to post mp3s...even if it were simply GeoCities...or getting together in small groups, pooling resources and forming one's own conglomeration of Net Labels.

By placing one's creative product (music) in the hands of one centralized location (Archive.Org) the likelyhood of disaster striking increases greatly - - I seem to remember a major power blackout on the east coast of the USA a couple of years ago.
Things happen, websites close, grants are cut-off, donations dry-up...nothing is forever.

I just hope that musicians who are uploading their entire creative output have back-up plans, and I hope thy won't get bugged if (and when) their host decides to start charging or chuck the whole operation.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 4:37am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

re:

'Money is never a reason to do (or not to do) anything. '

yes it is.

If a person can't afford (or borrow) $100-200 a year to have a simple website, then they shouldn't be fooling around with the technology to begin with.

utter crap, we get over 100000 visitors a year, if we included mp3 downloads into the bandwidth we'd be talking a hell of a lot more than a couple of hundred quid.

If Archive.Org didn't exist, there certainly would be some other way to post mp3s...even if it were simply GeoCities...or getting together in small groups, pooling resources and forming one's own conglomeration of Net Labels. '

geocities.... you obviously don't know shit, as soon as you gt any amount of traffic they'd yank the media. co=ops are around, panicnow is one, it's also how scene.org started.

and the rest, your post is way off the mark.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffaaron m Date: Aug 10, 2005 6:28am
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

"utter crap, we get over 100000 visitors a year, if we included mp3 downloads into the bandwidth we'd be talking a hell of a lot more than a couple of hundred quid. "

I understand where you are comming from but, there are several netlabels that do just that (including those that get way more traffic than that).

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffhippocamp.net Date: Aug 10, 2005 5:49pm
Forum: netlabels Subject: Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ??

that's all well and good, but, they are self financed, i simply can't afford to pay the amount of money involved to keep the site running without projects like scene, archive, panicnow et al. one way isn't better than the other.

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